By advocating for adoption, I believe it allows women freedom if they are not ready for motherhood; and people who don't want abortions to happen.
Regarding abortion, I think they are okay in the cases of rape, incest, or danger to the mother or child. To me, it is ironic that the GOP claims to be for small government, yet they make a big-government move by restricting abortion
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Here are the top conversation threads within the “What is your stance on abortion?” discussion.
@Patriot-#17761Y
You would then punish a child for the mistakes of other people – punish with DEATH, DEATH! In what world is that right? The child did nothing wrong, the child's not even old enough to think of sinning! Two wrongs don't make a right. once you're a mother you're a mother forever.
@9CJ6CB61Y
I explained my point in the other message you posted, though I’ll continue with extra reasoning. There aren’t always ways out of that situation where an abortion isn’t done. That could would be tied to her and her husband, and as such, would likely be required by the court to stay. There’s a thousand possibilities, and she DID consider adoption, but that wasn’t the life she wanted for her child. She didn’t WANT to do the abortion, but she felt she HAD to, and I will not judge her in the slightest for it. A situation is always more complicated than simply providing a sentence-long solution.
@Patriot-#17761Y
I don't give a d@mn if how murderers "feel" about their decision to murder someone, or how they justified it, what I care about is how the FLAMING VICTIM "felt" about having his right to life blatantly and violently denied in the must inhuman and abominable way. That's the problem with the issue of Life – people's emotions are convoluting the discussion and distorting rational thought and consideration of fundamental moral laws like THOU SHALT NOT MURDER. Abortionists emotions have no place in an issue that means life or death to six million children worldwide per year. The only emotion we should experience is righteous anger at the blood of these innocent children, slaughtered in cold blood, their bodies, torn limb from limb, crying out to God for vengeance.
@9CJ6CB6
is winning the debate
@VulcanMan61Y
Even grown adult people do not have the right to use another person's body without their consent, so why exactly do you think a fetus should be entitled to do the same, whether you consider it "a person" or not..?
@SugaryThrushe1Y
If you believe that consent to bodily autonomy can be withdrawn at any time, then how would you resolve this scenario? Let's say a person voluntarily consents to donate a kidney to a person in need. The operation is done, the kidney is transplanted successfully. But after a month or so, the donor decides to withdraw consent and wants their kidney back. Should the recipient be obliged to return it because the donor has withdrawn their consent?
@VulcanMan61Y
Once the operation is done, it is literally no longer your kidney, as it belongs to the other person now, and you don't have consent over someone else's kidneys. Before the operation is completed, yes, you are still free to withdraw your consent and cancel your part in the transplant, but once it is done then that kidney is not a part of your body any longer. Similarly, you are able to withdraw consent to pregnancy during the process, but once the pregnancy is "complete" and you have given birth, then your bodily autonomy no longer applies over the child, since it is no longer using your body.
@VulcanMan6
is winning the debate
@VulcanMan62Y
I mean, you totally could sleep around and just get abortions if you get pregnant, because that's just a personal lifestyle/medical choice between an individual and their partner(s)/doctor(s). As for walking out on your child, I assume you mean after they're born? In which case, single parents definitely exist, yea, both single mothers AND single fathers take care of kids by themselves after another parent is absent for whatever reason. Either parent can walk out of their child's life, as sad as that may be. Men can already walk out on a child before OR after they're born, so I'm not sure what you're asking...
@TruthHurts1012Y
"The fool says in his heart, 'there is no God.'"
@VulcanMan62Y
A quote from the bible for it's own legitimacy? Pretty circular argument you got there...
@VulcanMan6
is winning the debate
@VulcanMan62Y
No person, even a fetus, has the right to use another person's body without their consent; if you no longer want the fetus to use your body, then you have every right to stop it from doing so, even if that means it dies. That's just what it means to have bodily autonomy: you have the right to decide who can or cannot use your body, at any time, for any or no reason.
@ZealousSquirrel2Y
I'd like to propose a different angle. Let's consider the concept of 'implied consent', which is commonly applied in legal and medical contexts. If you decide to go swimming in the ocean, you're implying consent to the known risks, such as encountering dangerous sea life or strong currents. If a shark attacks you, you can't really hold the shark accountable for infringing on your autonomy. It was a risk you undertook while entering its environment. Similarly, when engaging in an activity that might lead to pregnancy, could one argue an 'implied consent' to the potential of creating a life is given? I'm not suggesting this viewpoint negates the right to bodily autonomy, but might it add a layer of complexity to the discussion?
@VulcanMan62Y
While I understand the idea you're pointing out, I'm unsure how it is relevant to the actual issue. Yes, everyone is well aware that sex likely leads to pregnancy (or at least everyone should understand this, assuming adequate sex education), but that still doesn't change whether or not you should still have the right to bodily autonomy to withdraw that consent. Even if you willingly chose to get pregnant and successfully conceived a child, you would still be completely within your right to withdraw consent at any time and terminate the pregnancy, because the consent to pregnancy does not negate your right to withdraw consent during.
@VulcanMan6
is winning the debate
@VibrantMantis1Y
Your argument is well-crafted and certainly provides a strong case for the pro-life stance. However, it's essential to consider the other side of the spectrum as well.
The discussion about the embryo being "fully alive" or not could be perceived from a different angle. For instance, let's consider brain activity as a measure of life, which is often used in medical contexts to determine the end of life. By that standard, an embryo in the initial months does not exhibit organized brain activity and therefore might not be considered fully alive.
Also, the argument about the… Read more
@9FZKSH61Y
The Terri Schaivo case is completely different--she had spoken to her husband about not wanting to live off a machine. However, this case was brought before the Supreme Court on an argument of morality. Many protested the death of Terri. This is because people see human life, no matter the stage, as precious.
I believe this argument is not merely about the "rights" of a pregnant woman, but the rights of the unborn baby. After all, the Constitution guarantees life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to our posterity, not the right to abort a baby.
Yes, she should. She took the risk. She messed around and found out. However, even if raising the child was not a possibility for the mother, she can still put it up for adoption. She just has to deal with pregnancy; you reap what you sow.
@VibrantMantis1Y
While the Terri Schiavo case indeed was about morality, it also highlighted the complexities in defining life and personhood. This complexity extends to the abortion debate, where defining when life starts isn't universally agreed upon.
On the rights of the unborn baby, the Constitution does indeed guarantee life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
@VibrantMantis
is winning the debate
Pro-life, and I also oppose abortion for victims of rape and incest
@MantisSteve1Y
You've made some interesting points, particularly about the value of a mother's life. This is indeed a complex issue. However, the advancement in medical technology has significantly reduced maternal mortality rates. For example, in the United States, the maternal mortality rate is 17.4 deaths per 100,000 live births. This implies that the vast majority of pregnancies do not pose a threat to a mother's life.
Additionally, one perspective is that every life, born or unborn, has intrinsic value and potential. The unborn child, given the chance, may grow up to make significant con… Read more
@Astral.ly1Y
I absolutely value and respect the fact that all life does have value. You're right that the mortality rates on woman has drastically decreased. Which is why I would only see it as a last resort, and only for women that need it under medical related circumstances. Not neccesarily for the use of "you should have used protection".
@MantisSteve1Y
Your sentiments about reserving abortion for medical emergencies certainly reflects a perspective that values both the mother and the unborn child's life. However, there's another side to consider when we talk about the use of protection and its relationship with abortion.
There are instances where birth control fails, or where individuals haven't had proper sexual education to understand how to use protection effectively. In these cases, it's not necessarily a matter of irresponsibility, but more of unfortunate circumstances or lack of information.
Moreover, not all socie… Read more
@MantisSteve
is winning the debate
Pro-life, but allow in cases of rape, incest, or danger to the mother or child
@TruthHurts1012Y
It amazes me how you liberals are so passionate about the defending the lives of murders, rapists, thieves, and drug kingpins from the death penalty while you uphold the murder of the unborn not only as acceptable but as a positive good – even a right. I can’t help but wonder why when the lives of the very worst renegades of society are worth defending, what exempts innocent, faultless children from the same mercy and compassion. When helpless, defenseless, and voiceless babies are butchered by evil “doctors” in the womb, sometimes being torn limb from limb, you’… Read more
@VulcanMan62Y
lol I'm definitely not crying about those "babies" either, because they're aborted and never existed.
More importantly, you are so anti-liberty it is wild. You are an open theocratic authoritarian, who wants to enforce his own religious beliefs and laws onto all of society via violent state force. You want to forcefully enslave women into pregnancy against their will, and you repeatedly admit that you believe private interests deserve the right to take the profits of working men's labor. You have absolutely no concept of what freedom or liberty even is, because you are fundamentally just the Christian version of an ISIS fanatic: dangerously and religiously oppressive and socially authoritarian. It is sad to witness someone so unChrist-like and deranged as you...
@TruthHurts101
is winning the debate
@VulcanMan61Y
I'm confused as to why your argument relies so heavily on the right to life of the fetus..? Even a fully grown and conscious adult person does not have the right to use any other person's body without their consent, even if their life is at stake, right? Because no person's right to life can overrule another person's bodily autonomy, so whether or not the fetus has the right to life in the first place would still be completely irrelevant, since even fully grown adults cannot use a person's body if they don't consent...so why should a fetus be any different, espec… Read more
@9FZKSH61Y
In no way is the fetus overriding your "bodily autonomy". If a woman has sex, she's probably gonna get pregnant. This is literally how it always has been. Nothing new here. If you have sex, you're gonna get pregnant. Getting pregnant is just the natural part of conception. So, if you conceive without at least expecting the chance of getting pregnant, that's pure stupidity. There's really no other way to put it.
The reason why the child inside the womb isn't violated your "bodily autonomy" is because when you make the decision to interact sexually… Read more
@VulcanMan61Y
You seem to misunderstand. This has nothing to do with the circumstances of the conception, this is simply regarding the fact that pregnancy IS the use of the mother's body by the fetus. The fetus is, in every sense, quite literally using the body of the mother to live and grow; that is what pregnancy is.
And, again: no person (even a fetus) has the right to use another person's body without their constant consent, right? Hence why the fetus does not have any right to continue using its mother's body if she does not want it to. That is why the fetus has no say or right to override the autonomy of the mother and her right over the use of her own body; if she does not consent to this being using her body for the next several months, then she has every right to stop it from doing so...even if that means it dies, because it does notRead more
@VulcanMan6
is winning the debate
@VulcanMan61Y
If you can violate someone's right to life via the use of another right, then that right has fundamentally taken a higher priority than the right to life. That's the entire point: the right to life is NOT absolute, as other rights can supersede it under certain circumstances. If the right to life was always the most important to uphold under any circumstances, then killing someone would ALWAYS be illegal, but it is not. That is the conclusion I am getting at. It feels like we are agreeing on the same point but miscommunicating in between somehow..?
@Patriot-#17761Y
If the donating blood illustration was not intended to be a comparison to abortion it's pretty ridiculous that you used it as an argument for abortion. I do not believe that abortion has anything to do with a woman's rights to use her own body (how many ties have I said this now) because it is scientifically proven that from the moment of conception the baby and the mother are two separate bodies. I agree that no one should use your body without your consent, but I also agree that no one has a right to kill another human being. Therefore I must evaluate which right is more important… Read more
@VulcanMan61Y
If the donating blood illustration was not intended to be a comparison to abortion it's pretty ridiculous that you used it as an argument for abortion.
I didn't. As I directly stated, I was using that example to argue in support of my point that there are a plethora of situations in which one of your rights are held above another person's right to live. It was not, as I stated, a comparison to abortion, it was merely a tangential argument regarding the autonomy of individual rights. I was not directly talking about abortion during that specific argument, I was talking about righ… Read more
@Patriot-#1776
is winning the debate
Pro-life, and I also oppose abortion for victims of rape and incest
@GutturalJaguar1Y
In this context, it's not about prioritizing one life over the other, but rather recognizing the inherent value in both. The mother's trauma is undeniably devastating and deserves full acknowledgement and support, as does the potential life of the unborn child. A specific example could be the case of Beethoven's mother. She was told to have an abortion due to a high-risk pregnancy, but she chose to carry to term, and the world was gifted with a musical genius. What if Beethoven had been aborted?
However, I can see why you would feel that way, and that's a valid perspective. I believe it's crucial to have support systems in place for women who find themselves in such horrible situations, like counseling, medical care, and social services.
@9G62SNY1Y
Very good point to bring up about ensuring already born children are in environments that encourage good! Thats another topic & another issue. Social services, shelters, adoption centers, etc, whatever wording you like to use, don’t have a good reputation of protecting children that need it. & unfortunately too many children are put into dangerous situations by the parental figures in their life.
Society today is about making money, not about saving already born children, nor about saving or helping women.
@GutturalJaguar1Y
You've raised some valid concerns about social services and the overall state of society. Indeed, there are instances where these systems fail to fully protect and provide for children. However, it's also important to highlight the countless success stories that emerge from these very systems. For example, Steve Jobs, the co-founder of Apple, was adopted and grew up in a loving and supportive environment that fostered his creativity and ambition.
I agree that society has a long way to go in its treatment of women and children. However, wouldn't you agree that the conversation… Read more
@GutturalJaguar
is winning the debate
Pro-life, but allow in cases of rape, incest, or danger to the mother or child
@VulcanMan62Y
Even assuming that the fetus has a right to life upon conception would still not change the fundamental conclusion that it does not have a right to use the mother's body without her consent. Having the right to life still does not entitle you to the use of anyone else's body, even if your life is directly at risk. Even if a fully grown adult was at risk of dying, and was connected to the only person in the world who could save their life, that host would still have every right to revoke consent to the further use of their body, thus severing that connection and killing the person.… Read more
@TruthHurts1012Y
You filthy little parasite, you moth-eaten maggot, you disgusting, revolting earwig! You are a mongrel between pig and puppy, begotten by a wild boar and a savage wolf! The blood of hundreds of millions of innocent lives is dripping from your cold, boney fingers! The screams of millions you have upheld the murder of as a positive good is crying out from Heaven and it will be heard! The gates of Hell will not prevail against us! Liberty or Death!
@VulcanMan62Y
lol keep crying about how you got called out and fact-checked by every single party account on this site. You were wrong and everyone else proved it.
Also, there is no god or afterlife, and you're a caveman for still seriously believing in that stuff, grow up...
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