In the U.S. police budgets are set by elected officials at local and state levels. In 2020 elected officials in New York, Seattle, Los Angeles and Minneapolis approved plans to reduce police budgets in response to the nationwide protests following the killing of George Floyd in police custody in Minneapolis. After the budget cuts many US cities saw a rise in crime, with murder rates up by double digits in many cities. In the last three months of 2020, homicides rose 32.2% in cities with a population of at least one million, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Quarterly…
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@ISIDEWITH4yrs4Y
No
@9GKFN65 1yr1Y
Top Agreement
Giving the police more weapons and tools to enact violence against civilians will just further encourage them to abuse their power. If the government wants to tackle crime, they should make a better social safety net that actually meets the standards of other developed nations and pass policies to decrease poverty. Basically target the root causes of crime, over policing has shown to not to lower crime rates.
@9GKJHQL1yr1Y
I agree that some cops abuse their power but they should have acess to weapons and gear that can save their lives when dealing with criminals who also have weapons trying to kill the police.
@9GKL8JQ1yr1Y
The police defend the people within the U.S and fight the good fight, If they need military-Grade weaponry to protect citizens, have at it, our safety should be held at high standards to ensure our protection.
@9GKYRRK1yr1Y
What if an attacker is chasing you with a knife. and the police can't help from a distance. Or even so if you are under threat/ held hostage what are they supposed to do; talk calmly and hope and pray they put down the weapon.
@9GKPX7G1yr1Y
No they should have access to more weapons due to the higher level crimes being committed if citizens can have access to many weapons then why cant they. They are just as able to have the same guns as citizens if not have higher powerful weapons since the training they go through is more advanced.
@9FLS3RX 1yr1Y
If you were able to demilitarize the police who would protect you in your community and who’s from stopping from bad people to do whatever they want and whenever they want.
@9FM9PYF1yr1Y
There is no real counter argument to this, take away the power of the enforcers of the law and this country will burn
@9GTDNXR 1yr1Y
One party in a conflict being ready, trained, prepared, armed, and itching for battle is more likely to result in a battle, pretty obviously.
@9GY8GBWRepublican1yr1Y
Police officers tend to use too much force when dealing with complications, some even target people of color. I believe our police officers should not carry military-grade weapons while conducting business around citizens.
@ISIDEWITH4yrs4Y
Yes
@9FF896N1yr1Y
If we give the police military grade equipment then they will cause more harm than they will protection.
@9TYJFHK6mos6MO
#1 Informed Demilitarize the Police
Most "militarisation" of equippment is just getting surplus/common gear instead of buying different stuff.
Ballistic armor poses no risk of harm, and firearms don't suddenly go from "not dangerous" to "dangerous" past a certain point.
When especially dangerous equipment (breaching explosives, flashbangs, etc) or tactics are needed, misuse is a training problem. If you have to reserve some things for specialists, so be it (beat cops normally don't carry flashbangs and C2).
@Cuz-I-Know-Stuff2mos2MO
#4 Engaged Demilitarize the Police
Many people think that when you "militarize" the police, it means giving them rocket launchers, tanks, etc. Sometimes that is the case but usually they receive armored vehicles, stronger plate armor, and automatic rifles (which most S.W.A.T. officers usually already have).
I see where you're coming from, but let's flip the pancake here. Imagine you're a cop responding to an active shooter situation. You've got your standard equipment, maybe a pistol and a taser. Meanwhile, the bad guy's got military-grade gear. It's like bringing a slingshot to a bazooka party, not the best odds, huh? Now, I'm not saying we start handing out tanks at the precinct, but some advanced protective gear wouldn't be a bad idea.
What's your take on that scenario? Any alternative solutions to level the playing field without escalating things too much?
@9F9PTM61yr1Y
The people who have made cops look bad in the past have dealt with their consequences and they have been removed but that doesn’t make all cops bad. So we shouldn’t be treating all of the cops bad just because of the few who make them seem like bad.
@9FBV37V1yr1Y
The reason I say no to letting police departments be allowed to use military-grade equipment is that, I disagree with what the police do with the power they hold and how they think of themself with that power in their hands. They use most of their power over people to start and cause a problem for locals and people of other races and don't care for what others think of what they're doing nor do they care how they are seen in others' eyes, the police always think they're doing the right thing in stop "criminals", but what they are really doing is stopping people who look suspect in their eyes and do as they please because they have authority or them.
@9FHZ7H41yr1Y
but what about school shootings, a 9mm handgun isn't going to stop a school shooter wearing body armor which is readily available and you can buy everything you need online.
@ISIDEWITH4yrs4Y
No, extreme situations should be handled by higher agencies with specialized training and equipment
@9FVB44L1yr1Y
The police are a majorly local organization, this means that these different groups are designed to deal with smaller, less severe, local problems. With this in mind, asking the police to deal with these extreme situations on their own would not be reasonable or safe. These officers are then given military grade equipment in order to deal with these problems although they may've (most likely) never had used the equipment bestowed upon them, this leads to many situations not being able to be safely concluded. Higher agencies with more specialized training and equipment to better deal with these severe problems in a way that uses the training that they have received, compared to the police without this particular training.
The police are supposed to deal with local/state issues. If something is so problematic it needs more force, then a higher agency should be equipped.
@9FN6C2T1yr1Y
That is an understandable point, however it is not effective. The police have sufficient training to use military grade equipment to neutralise a situation. The main priority is to protect the public, not to rely on a small and unreliable number of people to protect a large amount of people, which is what this aims to do, all in the defence of “higher agencies”, I would far rather a situation be dealt with quickly and normally as opposed to slowly and proficiently.
@9GS56K81yr1Y
The police are needed to provide safety for the community and keep crime rates low, so when you ask a 40-year-old police officer, for example, to try and disarm a potential terrorist with a bomb strapped to his chest the odds of that situation ending in a positive result is way less than if you were to send a trained specialist with te right training and equipment for that exact scenario.
@ISIDEWITH4yrs4Y
Yes, but with strict training on how and when to use the equipment
@9FLS3RX 1yr1Y
Top Disagreement
The police need more training if they ever come to a situation where they freeze and have no idea what to do and not instantly just reach for their gun but instead to take a minute and really think things through.
@9FM9SW81yr1Y
They need to take some form of u conscious bias training and further their firearm handling training as well as vetting process to be a police officer
@9TYJFHK6mos6MO
#1 Informed Demilitarize the Police
Too many cops shoot themselves accidentally, so it's already hard to trust them to make a "shoot/don't shoot" decision quickly and reliably.
Our police academies need more hours.
@9GXBMVM 1yr1Y
Police should not be equipped with military graded weapons, if there is a situation that requires higher grade weapons or equipment then teams with higher training such as SWAT should be brought in.
@9GXDJG9Libertarian1yr1Y
There are certain situations where police are oftentimes the first on the scene and waiting for SWAT or other tactical units may waste precious time and lives.
Police should not be equipped with military graded weapons, if there is a situation that requires higher grade weapons or equipment then teams with higher training such as SWAT should be brought in.
@9FZS9XX1yr1Y
Swat is still the police, I don’t think the police or military should exist because they exist to perpetuate institutions of oppressions or imperialism
@9FZS7WWRepublican1yr1Y
Police should be demilitarize because if there is a situation in a town or city where the police can't handle that situation, the military and/or Swapt team should be call in.
@9FZS8LG1yr1Y
Police should be equipped with military-grade weapons in case they are necessary for a dispute, but the person equipped with the weapon must be well-trained and educated on the weapon and its uses.
The police need more training so they are not left to their own devices if they aren't prepared to deal with the people they are trying to control.
@ISIDEWITH4yrs4Y
Yes, but only in response to extreme situations
@9G3PBHW 1yr1Y
This is already the case; police are trained to only use military equipment in extreme situations. That doesn't prevent any deaths.
@9G3R7TM1yr1Y
Police shouldn't have access to military equipment at all. And the perspective on what counts as an extreme situation is one sided apparently given how many times it's been used in non extreme situations.
@9TYJFHK6mos6MO
#1 Informed Demilitarize the Police
So something like radios or ATAK(a smartphone on a vest) should be off limits?
Or do you only mean the "military equipment" which you arbitrarily consider too dangerous?
@9G3R4DZ1yr1Y
Police should not use military equipment, who gets to decide what an emergency is, and how can you possibly say this one prevent deaths every single person who has ever died from police intervention could’ve been prevented
@9GRFKWX1yr1Y
I think the police should not have access to any military weapons unless it is a VERY extreme situation
@9GN2ZL4 1yr1Y
What defines extreme to everyone is different, as an armed bank robbery can be deemed extreme, but it's not a hostage situation, which is also extreme. The lines feel too blurry to use as a way to prevent something bad from happening.
@9GSYDFD1yr1Y
no, maybe some police if they use there job just as an excuse for things, or if they are doing the job wrong, or other things, but if a police is actually doing there job right then why remove them.
@ISIDEWITH4yrs4Y
No, and abolish the police
@9F72YSY 2yrs2Y
Top Disagreement
Without Police, we won't have any protections. All of the stuff you are scared of, drug dealer, murderers, rapist are all handled by the Police and abolishing them would be abolishing all of those protections.
While it's true that police play a crucial role in maintaining law and order, the call to abolish police often refers to drastically reimagining our current policing system, not eliminating law enforcement altogether. For example, in some communities, there's been a shift towards community-led safety initiatives, which focus on preventative measures rather than punitive ones. These initiatives often involve social workers, mental health professionals, and community activists. This isn't to say such a drastic change would be easy or without challenges, but it does provide a different perspective on public safety. What are your thoughts on this approach?
@9F8ZC2J1yr1Y
Whose the first person you call when someone breaks into your house? Who would be the first people to show up with guns drawn ready to protect you and your family?
@9F9PTM61yr1Y
The police should not be abolished because they are doing their jobs. What we can do instead is fund the police academy so they can receive proper training.
@9FN6C2T1yr1Y
The Police are a fundamental part of a civilised society, whose role is to protect the public from criminality, they are a necessity. Any proposition to abolish the police is nothing but foolishness, created from the criminality of a small minority of officers.
@ISIDEWITH6mos6MO
If a friend expressed fear of going to a protest because of heavily armed police, what advice would you give them?
@9VCJNF35mos5MO
To not be afraid because they are only their to protect you from those who act out
@9VCF9HP5mos5MO
Although I would rather them not attend the protest because I also fear for their safety, I would advise them to bring a gas mask in case and to be aware of their surroundings. I would also advise them to leave if they felt like their life was in danger and to run away.
@9VCF7ZL5mos5MO
I will tell them not to go then and tell them that the police are the reason why we are safe because of them even if we have a bumpy history with them.
@9VCC5BB5mos5MO
I would advise them to show up because I respect advocating for a cause you believe in. However, I'd tell them that if it got too heated that they need to protect themselves and remove themselves from the situation.
Yes, but only in response to extreme situations and with strict training on how and when to use the equipment
@7LPHL2F4yrs4Y
Yes, but only in response to extreme situations with strict training on how and when to use the equipment.
@8S6LP624yrs4Y
Yes, but only in extreme situations and with strict training on how and when to use the equipment.
@8RNKJH94yrs4Y
define military grade
@9FZBPKH 1yr1Y
I figure it means stuff ranging from Humvees and Stryker APCs to advanced ballistic armor to M4A1s to NVGs. I doubt it means stuff like tanks and IFVs.
Clarification: The Stryker is a fairly light armored vehicle usually armed with a .50in/12.7mm HMG (more than enough to take out any 'bad guy'). The Bradley IFV has a 30mm autocannon and enough armor to stop an RPG or 3 as well as 30mm cannon shots.
While your description of 'military-grade' is accurate, the use of such equipment by domestic police forces could escalate rather than deescalate situations. For example, the use of armored vehicles could lead to an arms race between the police and criminal elements. Not to mention, the militarization of police could potentially intimidate citizens and erode the trust between the community and law enforcement. What are your thoughts on this? How can we reconcile the need for police protection with the potential militarization of our police force?
@9FZBPKH 1yr1Y
I wasn't stating my opinion, rather, I was simply stating what I figured 'military-grade' meant. My stance on this is that police getting gear like advanced body armor and SWAT teams getting advanced NVGs and *maybe* disarmed military armored vehicles in addition.
That's an interesting stance. Having police equipped with advanced body armor and night vision goggles could definitely increase their effectiveness and safety during high-risk operations. For instance, during the North Hollywood shootout in 1997, the police were outgunned and under-equipped, making it a deadly situation. Equipping police with better protective gear could potentially prevent such incidents.
As for military armored vehicles, they could be useful in extreme situations such as active shooter scenarios or high-risk warrant services, where additional protection for officers… Read more
@Cuz-I-Know-Stuff2mos2MO
@8Q6K5SR4yrs4Y
Yes, but with strict training and only in response to extreme situations.
@8R3BVHGIndependent4yrs4Y
Yes, but only in response to extreme situations and strict training on how and when to use the equipment.
@8R2V4494yrs4Y
Yes; but only in response to extreme situations and with strict training on how and when to use the equipment
@8PHDH564yrs4Y
Yes, but only in response to extreme situations Yes, but with strict training on how and when to use the equipment
@8PGBN5L4yrs4Y
Yes, but only with strict training on how and when to use the equipment and only in extreme situations when such material is needed.
@8PGYWQJ4yrs4Y
Yes, but with strict training and only in extreme situations.
@8WPVDVM3yrs3Y
@8RN7KGB4yrs4Y
Yes, but only in extreme situations and with strict training
@ISIDEWITH1yr1Y
Imagine your neighborhood's police just got an armored vehicle; how would that make you feel and why?
@9H8HDK61yr1Y
Terrified because no law enforcement should have military grade weapons.
@ISIDEWITH1yr1Y
What are your thoughts on the balance between police officer safety and community safety when it comes to using military-grade equipment?
@9H8FJ8NRepublican1yr1Y
Police forces are essential in society and should not be demilitarized. There should be better training given when becoming a police officer. Especially regarding the time, place, and situation to use military grade equipment. I also believe police need to be better trained on how to deal with mentally ill individuals. They should also face punishment if not properly using military grade equipment.
@9D6PRS2Libertarian2yrs2Y
The police should be allowed only what their citizens are allowed to use.
That's a fair point. By only allowing police the same level of equipment as citizens, it could help maintain a level playing field and potentially reduce instances of excessive force. For instance, in countries like the UK where most citizens and the majority of police officers aren't armed, violent crime rates are comparatively low.
@8Z3W5S93yrs3Y
Yes, but only in response to extreme situations and only with strict training on how and when to use the equipment.
@8S8CRWB4yrs4Y
Yes and so should civilians
@8PL88324yrs4Y
Yes but with strict training on how and when to use the equipment and only in response to extreme situations
@ISIDEWITH1yr1Y
@8Q4XF4KRepublican4yrs4Y
Yes, but only in response to extreme situations and with strict training on how and when to use the equipment.
@8X7WJNS3yrs3Y
Yes, but so should civilians
@8VWXZT63yrs3Y
Yes and so should citizens.
Yes, but so should citizens.
only in extreme situations and with strict training
@9DP973J2yrs2Y
Yes, but citizens should have access to the same equipment.
@9DGVTK9Transhumanist2yrs2Y
No. This is what the National Guard is for.
@ISIDEWITH1yr1Y
@ISIDEWITH1yr1Y
@8WCYLLH3yrs3Y
Yes, but only in response to extreme situations, but with strict training on how and when to use the equipment
@92YHQCV3yrs3Y
Yes, but only in response to extreme situations, and with strict training on how and when to use the equipment
@8RMRPKY4yrs4Y
Yes, but only in response to extreme situations, with strict training on how and when to use the equipment
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